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My claim is it came into play around the early 90s, *not* the mid-80s. Doom , Jan 13, 2005 (UTC) The better known bands that crop up in the list of "dark wave" bands in the 2nd paragraph were simply called "alternative" in the 1980s.

Unfortunately, Wikipedia editors have rejected the values of the original alternative movement in favor of the much smaller sub-genre of "alternative rock." As a result, people who were around at the time feel some very important bands & influences of the alternative scene aren't getting their due in the "alternative" articles.

I'm trying to restore my multiple-definitions approach, but I'm including a fourth definition now, the expansive definition that some of the dark wave fans here would seem to like to see used.

If you'd like to try and improve on this, that's great, but I ask you to remember that we're supposed to be *neutral* here, we're working on an encyclopedia entry, not a press release.

Femmy V (talk) , 13 January 2008 (UTC) I think Dark Wave is not really gothic rock - sometimes it is a mixture from gothic rock and wave, maybe caused by the success of The Cure which are influencial band in the late 80ies.

But Das Ich and also Goethes Erben are not really wave music, they are something completely different - Neue Deutsche Todeskunst, a different style.

I mean, Switchblade Symphony, from my neck of the woods, was appearing on gothic-industrial comps in the early 90s and none of us thought they were deserving of a new genre name... -- Doom , Dec 4, 2004 (UTC) Another view from DE: it is always complicated to reconstruct the development of styles and subcultures.

What would you suggest as an improvement, something that would get across the german meaning of darkwave very quickly?

I'm afraid that the distinction between The Cure and, say, Joy Division is a little fine for my ears, but I guess I can accept the notion that The Cure is midway between gothic rock and new wave.

On with the minutiae: (0) My contention is that "darkwave" means different things to different people, which means that you need multiple definitions to explain it: this is okay, it happens. My writeup began with the german usage, which seems to have come first; then I talked about the Projekt label association which if anything is the first thing people think of in the US; and also mentioned some other associations (e.g. The distinctions between definitions have become totally blurred and the third meaning has been dropped completely.

Let me repeat the main point here one more time: there is no one definition that will satisfy everyone: don't just delete a definition that doesn't work for you personally.

(By the way: I take it that "wave" is a european shortening of the old brit/american term "new wave", tell me if that's wrong.) So what should the article say, a "form of synthesizer based rock music, something like gothic rock or new wave"?

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